Newsletter No.19
Winter 1988/89
Front cover photograph: U class no. 1618 on parade at Horsted Keynes - Sunday, 8th May 1988.
Photograph: Mike Frackiewicz
In this edition click to go further to:
Financial Matters or Engineering reportor The Future of 830 or Factual letter on Southern 4-6-0 boilers
| Ray Bellingham | Chairman | 7 West Point, Newick, E. Sussex, BN8 4NU. |
| Mary Bellingham | Treasurer | As above. |
| Rodney Packham | Membership Sec. | 132 Church Road, Swanscombe, Kent DA10 0HP. |
| John Ambler | General Member | 19 Allcard Close, Horsham, West Sussex RH12 4AJ. |
| George Binns | General Member | 21 Barnfield Close, Hastings, East Sussex TN34 1TS. |
| Felix Cope | General Member | Feldor, Grassy Lane, Sevenoaks, Kent TN13 1PL |
| Mike Frackiewicz | Publicity Officer | 55 Rectory Lane, Woodmansterne, Banstead, Surrey, SM7 3PE. |
| David Jones | General Member | 22 Manor Road, Hampden Park, Eastbourne, East Sussex. |
| Steve Pilcher | Newsletter Editor | 52 Thomas More Street, London E1 9LE. |
Page 2
1988 saw the tenth anniversary of the arrival of 541 and 847 at Sheffield Park. In that space of ten years we have achieved a lot: 541 has been restored to first class working order and has been in regular use along with our U class no. 1618. We have made very good progress with no. 847 and hopefully it will not be too long before it too is back in steam. The Society's Directors wish to thank the members for their physical and financial support and we all hope you will continue to back us in our efforts to get our S15 back in action. I enclose donation and membership forms for your attention!
I'd like to thank one of our members, Jon Elphick, for his work in arranging the printing and production of this and the previous issue of the Newsletter. I'm sure members will agree it is a vast improvement. Finally I would like to wish all our members and supporters a successful and enjoyable new year.
Page 2
The good work continues on 847 and the following jobs have been undertaken since the, last report:
(i) Fabrication and installation of new steel plate "half sides" within the smokebox.
(ii) Remetalling and machining of both ends of the regulator rod, necessitated by excessive wear, and re-installation in the boiler.
(iii) Completion of the fabrication of 24 new superheater elements and their installation.
(iv) Installation inside the smokebox of the steam pipes between the superheater header and the cylinders.
(v) Completion of the machining of the clack valves and the X10 injectors.
(vi) Commencement of refurbishment of motion parts, some of which require a lot of work due to corrosion.
(vii) Reinstatement of the petticoat pipe within the chimney.
(viii) Piston rods and slidebars sent away for machining.
(ix) New concrete floor cast within smokebox.
"Our" Q class no.30541, with the Bulleid style chimney then fitted on 26th June 1961.
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(x) Manufacture and machining of the blower valve and stuffing box for the regulator by Ray Bellingham.
Having completed most of the work required in the smokebox we are pleased with the progress that has been made over the past few months. Most of the work has been fairly time consuming for each individual task, in spite of which, unfortunately, there is not an awful lot to show for it on the outside of the loco! In the past we were used to fairly routine scraping and cleaning jobs and it is now quite interesting to be involved in tasks that require more in the way of metal working skills. We have been involved in fabricating a number of items of platework within the smokebox, the largest being the substantial plates at the bottom, the "half sides", which are about 4 feet by 3 feet curved sheets of 5/16" steel plate. They were quite a struggle to manhandle and fix into position.
We have been fortunate in getting a number of skilled jobs completed recently. The Society is indebted to Keith Sturt and Ray Bellingham for their work in fabricating the new superheater elements, to Melvyn Frohnsdorff and Brian Wilkie for their work in machining the clack valves and to Martin Nichols for machining the injectors.
In recent months we have been having a good turnout for our regular Sunday working parties. There have been a number of "new faces" joining in which is very cheering. The loco is now usually under cover in the running shed and we intend keeping up the momentum with the restoration through the winter. Within the next few months we anticipate making a start on the fitting of the brake gear, construction and erection of the boiler cladding and positioning the remaining boiler fittings; and work will of course continue on the motion.
Finally we would like to thank all our numerous regular workers for their efforts, and also the workshop staff and various Bluebell volunteers for their invaluable work, help and forebearance over the past year.
The PMV
Bernard Wright, Fred Card and Felix Cope have busied themselves in fitting a new felt roof to the van which was in need of repair. We are grateful for their efforts. Any offers to help repaint it next year?
Mike Frackiewicz has managed to assemble quite a respectable collection of photos of no.847, which has been quite useful in tracking down details of the engine's history. Mike always welcomes further photos of 847 and if any member wishes to add to the Society's collection his address will be found in the list of directors.
We are also pleased to receive copies of any photos of the other locomotives in our care; these should be sent direct to the Editor, Steve Pilcher.
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No. 795 Sir Dinadan on the last down morning Southern Belle, at East Croydon on 31st December 1932.
Photograph by courtesy of A. P. Dowley
Approximately 20 members attended the Meeting which was held in the upstairs bar of the new buffet at Sheffield Park.
Ray Bellingham, the Chairman, outlined the progress with the restoration of no. 847, which is detailed in our Engineering Report in this Newsletter.
The accounts were discussed and accepted by the Meeting and the auditors were re-elected. It was noted that the purchase of no. 830 in 1987 had been undertaken through the Society's accounts. This had led to a greatly increased figure for both income and expenditure.
It was agreed, after some discussion, to increase the subscriptions to £60 for life membership and £6 for annual membership.
All the Directors stood for re-election and, there being no new nominations, were elected unopposed.
It was noted that our regular team of workers are keen to take on another project as and when no. 847 is completed. Some possible future projects were discussed, including, needless to say, the possibility of restoring no. 830; but no firm decision was made, members agreeing that it was best to concentrate on completing no. 847 and to keep options open for the time being.
Finally Ray Tanner proposed a vote of thanks to Ray Bellingham for his work in leading the Society through another successful year, which was most enthusiastically endorsed.
Page 5
Last July, a number of our regular workers decided to treat themselves to a 'busman's holiday' and spent a weekend working at the Swanage Railway. No doubt readers are aware of the history of the preservation of this attractive line where the track is being relaid towards Wareham.
David Jones, Felix Cope and myself spent two days helping with the overhaul of one of the railway's industrial locomotives, Cunarder, which is taking place out in the open due to there being a very limited amount of covered accommodation. Four of the Bluebell's loco department - Sean Smeeth, Ian Collins, Clive Alderman and Peter Gilbert - also joined us and spent the weekend helping out with the service trains.
This was the first time any of our working members have spent time 'away from home' on another railway and hopefully it was of benefit to all concerned. The whole scale of the Swanage line's operations is very different to that of the Bluebell Railway. It was interesting to see Swanage Railway has grown over the years. They have managed to commission quite a large collection of coaches, mostly restored off site by a London based group. The line has a lot of potential and it will be instructive to see how it develops.
We certainly had a very friendly reception there and we look forward to possibly making another visit next year. We have plenty on our plates with 847 so pleasurable though it is to go visiting, it can only be an occasional treat!
No. 30541 again, seen with coal empties at Furzebrook on the Swanage branch. 7th September 1955.
Photograph: A. E. Bennett
Page 6
Firstly I must thank all members who wrote to us to express their views on 830. The issue of the possible restoration of the locomotive was discussed at the AGM, but no firm decision was reached: primarily because we need to concentrate on completing 847 first. Certainly the majority of members who have contacted us appear to favour the restoration of 830 to its original condition.
We have been considering some of the problems involved. For those interested here's a list of some of the major parts missing/jobs required.
I must make it clear that we have not undertaken a comprehensive survey of the loco and the above list is merely an indication of the magnitude of the task. It is also perhaps too early to cost out the work. We have some ideas vis a vis a replacement tender that could represent a considerable saving on the cost of constructing a new one from scratch. Likewise we are aware that other groups and individuals hold some spares. If we had to make all the parts from new it would be very expensive.
The recent excellent restoration of the Merchant Navy class loco Port Line has established a "bench mark" as to how a well organised, well financed restoration of a popular locomotive can be run. Seeing it in action at the Bluebell does promote a few ideas. No doubt when the restoration of 847 nears completion we will, as a Society, have to give serious thought as to what project to tackle next and how to finance it. It must be emphasised that 830 is privately owned by a member of the Society and any future action will have to be agreed with him and our hosts, the Bluebell Railway.
Page 7
Centre page photograph: In superb condition, 541 and 1618 double head a heavy train into Horsted Keynes on Parade Day, Sunday, 8th May 1988.
Photograph: Mike Frackiewicz
Page 8 & 9
We would like to thank all members who have taken the trouble to send us donations recently. However, though work is proceeding steadily, we are still short of funds to complete the work. The material for the boiler cladding has been ordered but still needs to be paid for. Before very long we would like to start replacing the boiler fittings, but this too will involve spending money on all the copper pipework needed. And in due course we will have to give thought to making that new ashpan ... more expense!
So your contributions to help in restoring 847 will be gratefully received. All cheques should be made out to Maunsell Locomotive Society Limited and should be sent to our Treasurer, Mary Bellingham, or our Secretary, Rodney Packham - addresses at the front of this Newsletter.
Sir Lamiel is currently undergoing a major overhaul at Hull Dairycoates by the team who originally restored it to main line running condition in 1981. I understand that a thorough job is being done and we look forward to more spirited performances from 777 soon.
No. 825's chassis is at the Brightlingsea yard of Steam and Sail Ltd. who have been actively involved in quite a number of restoration projects in 1988. They have worked on Port Line and King Edward I and they have a contract for a new tender body for Duchess of Hamilton. Despite being busy on all this work, it is understood that they have been giving thought to the task of constructing a completely new boiler for no. 825, though this is a long term project.
No doubt quite a few readers will have attended Eastleigh open day back in September and viewed the progress on no. 828 at first hand. Certainly the Maunsell Society working group were noticeably absent at Sheffield Park that day! It was a pleasure to see the excellent work undertaken by Harry Frith and his team. The tender is complete and looked impressive in lined green livery. A significant amount of platework had been replaced and the paint finish was excellent. The work on the chassis was more advanced than that on no. 847 with the brake rigging in place and various other fittings installed. The group is currently having to replace some stays on the boiler and a complete re-tube is required. Members may be interested to know that the tender is from no. 830.
Page 10
This locomotive is understood to have been in regular use on the North Yorkshire Moors Railway during 1988.
'Nellie' was specially transported down from Carnforth for the Woking 150 display in May. She is not in working order due to the need for fairly substantial repairs to the firebox. Nevertheless the external condition was superb and it was good to see her back in the South again. 850 has since returned to Carnforth.
No change from last year's report. It is not in working order, being in need of boiler repairs, and there are currently no plans to carry these out. It may appear on display from time to time at the NRM where it is stored.
Understood to be out of service at Steamtown, Scranton, USA, and in need of a fairly heavy overhaul.
At the time of writing this report (mid-November) the works detailed in our last Newsletter were nearing completion and no. 928 is due to be in service on the Bluebell next year.
This engine is still undergoing restoration from Barry condition on the Mid-Hants Railway at Alresford.
In store at the Bluebell Railway and awaiting restoration.
Page 11
'U' class no. 31806 departs from Ropley with an afternoon train for Alton on 22nd August, 1987.
Photograph: Mike Frackiewicz
Understood to have been in regular use on the Mid-Hants Railway during 1988.
Recently noted in the Mid-Hants Railway's Ropley workshops undergoing repairs. It was receiving a full repaint and will emerge, as previously. in BR black livery.
Dear Mr Pilcher,
May I please suggest that the question asked on p.4 of Newsletter No.18 about the chimney position on N15 (King Arthur') and S15 boilers has not been put in quite the right way. The short answer is that boilers could only be exchanged by fitting the appropriate smokebox; but perhaps I can amplify this by explaining the differences between the two designs.
Ignoring the tenders (of which five varieties were involved among the 79 Maunsell locomotives of both classes), there was a difference in the lengths of the two designs. The Maunsell (and I believe also the Urie) N15 was 38ft 15/8in long, whilst the S15 was shorter by 10½ inches. As far as the frames were concerned, this difference was accounted for by the distance between the
Page 12
centre lines of the rear bogie axle and the leading coupled axle being 5ft 6in and 5ft respectively, and between the leading and second coupled axles being 7ft 0in and 6ft 3in. (For these reasons, incidentally, it is not possible to restore no. 830 as a 'King Arthur' without providing new frames).
The boiler barrels were identical, as were the outside dimensions of the firebox, so the 10½in difference involved had to be absorbed in the length of the smokebox, as will be obvious from any suitable photographic study of the two designs. Both chimneys and cylinders were in identical positions relative to the front buffer beams, although, as stated in the Newsletter, the latter were at different angles - nearly horizontal in the N15 and well sloping in the S15. Therefore the length of the smokebox behind the chimney was 10½in shorter in the S15 class. It is thus not correct to state that the N15 chimneys 'were a lot closer to the front of the smokebox', but accurate to say that they were a lot further from the rear of the smokebox!
I have emphasised the outside dimensions of the fireboxes because they were different in the two designs. The N15s, both Urie and Maunsell, as well as the Urie S15s and the last batch of H15s of his design, all had similar, but not identical, boilers, whilst the Maunsell ones fitted to his engines were of course pressed higher by 20psi. However, with experience of the Maunsell N15s running for a year, it was considered that the water legs of the firebox were too narrow for proper circulation, so his S15s were designed with wider ones. This reduced the grate area from 30 sq ft to 28 sq ft. A couple of years later, when the V ('Schools') class was designed, this was again slightly altered to give them 28.3 sq ft.
In 1925 and shortly afterwards at least 11 N15 boilers were supplied as spares and fitted initially to H15s and both varieties of N15. 12 more were supplied in 1947-49, both batches being from the North British Locomotive Company. These later ones went initially to various members of Maunsell N15 and S15 classes. Presumably all boilers constructed after 1926 were actually S15 ones, rather than strictly N15, but I have no positive information about that - no doubt BR archives could provide it. Finally, the H15s (apart from the Drummond rebuilds which had quite different boilers and frames) were identical in dimensions to the S15s and therefore had the same length of smokebox, although on the first ten the boilers were parallel and the smokeboxes therefore greater in diameter. No.524, at least, did however later receive a Maunsell boiler.
I also have some other comments that I should like to make about the contents of this edition of the Newsletter. It was pleasant to see a rearward view of no. 1618. I hope it now has the rear of its tender looking like that of 700 class no. 690 on the back cover instead of adorned with the cast plate and buffer beam numerals as formerly carried (my letter to Rodney Packham of 4/10/82 refers and also a similar letter to York Museum about no.777; they acknowledged their error!). If memory serves me correctly, though, Eastern Section engines had somewhat smaller transfer numerals.
Page 13
Referring to p.10, I'm sure second thoughts would suggest the impracticability of rebuilding no.830 as an H16. Do you mean H15? All you would have for an H16 is a bogie and three pairs of coupled wheels! The wheelbases were entirely different, apart from the frames being a lot longer. The cylinders were of Urie design and the boiler was a Drummond D15 type.
If I may be permitted to conclude by being pedantic, on p.6 the number of Eton was originally E900. A900 was a Ul class 2-6-0 and indeed was the last example to be built with this style of numbering, the next of the series being turned out from Eastleigh as no. 1901. The L class, although produced during the Maunsell regime on the SE&CR, was not a Maunsell design. It was produced by Robert Surtees, Wainwright's Chief Draughtsman, and the only modifications by Maunsell, around the time of Surtees' retirement, were slight alterations to the boiler and firebox dimensions and the increase of the bogie wheel diameters by 1 inch to the former standard 3ft 7in. Also, after a perusal of the drawings by E. E. Joynt of the GS&WR (Ireland), the valve travel was shortened - a very different attitude from Maunsell's own team after their appointment, with the incursion of Swindon practices!
I hope all this may be of some interest to you.
Arthur Ll. Lambert
Blaenau Ffestiniog, Gwynedd
The Editor is always pleased to receive letters from members concerning items in the Newsletter or any other matters concerning the Society or about R. E. L. Maunsell and his work in general.
"Schools" class no. 30923 Bradfield on a parcels train at Redhill on 24th August 1961
Photograph: D. L Cobbe
Page 14
1988 saw the 21st anniversary of the passing of steam on Southern metals. To record this we hope members will forgive the inclusion of this illustration of a Bulleid pacific in the run-down condition typical of the last few months of working.
Photograph: David Idle
Felix Cope is still able to collect and sell stamps on our behalf and any packages of stamps can be left with Ray Bellingham in the Bluebell Railway's Workshop at Sheffield Park or sent direct to Felix. He is also able to sell any unwanted items of model railway equipment; such items may also be left with Ray, or Felix should be contacted so that an arrangement can be made for collection.
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Back page photograph: Shunting operations on Monday, April 11th 1988 permitted this Unusual view of the rear ends of our three locomotives in the running shed at Sheffield Park.
Photograph: Mike Frackiewicz.
